tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post4417278113144328093..comments2023-11-02T04:25:49.697-07:00Comments on Northwoods Seelsorger: Some Pastoral Thoughts on FuneralsDonald V. Engebretsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13048205066519140869noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-29625598270389390572009-05-24T20:16:19.700-07:002009-05-24T20:16:19.700-07:00A lively discussion regarding cremation is in a St...A lively discussion regarding cremation is in a Steadfast Lutheran blog, "<A HREF="http://steadfastlutherans.org/blog/?p=4172" REL="nofollow">A story worth your while</A>", starting at Comment 5.<br /><br />Included in Comment 35 are links to a set of much longer discussion threads from June-July 2005 on Bunnie Diehl's blog.Carl Vehsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00348831096001668813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-14391713053331705672009-04-21T14:08:00.000-07:002009-04-21T14:08:00.000-07:00Pr. Bestul,
Thank you for the history of the use o...Pr. Bestul,<br />Thank you for the history of the use of ossuaries in the OT/NT period. It is an interesting addition to the discussion on cremation. <br /><br />As a pastor who over the years has been asked to provide 'committal' services for cremated remains, I sympathize with your concerns with regard to how people treat them. Scattering them to the wind, dumping them in the river, or simply dusting them on the ground seems to fall short of the dignified when laying to rest the remains of this 'temple' created by God. <br /><br />The challenge we face in our time, it seems, is the pressure of cost. While I realize that money should not dictate how we treat the remains, the reality is that many people are looking for more and more economical ways to finance a funeral. When I buried my mother it cost me $10,000, and that did not include the cost of the burial plot, since she had purchased that prior to her death. I am always quick to recommend to people that the church is a very economical alternative to the funeral home, especially with regard to the 'viewing.' Perhaps if we can assist people in finding more or equally economical alternatives to cremation, the choice of burial may come more easily.Donald V. Engebretsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13048205066519140869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-68102498100161680572009-04-21T13:56:00.000-07:002009-04-21T13:56:00.000-07:00Dear "Christian Soul,"
My apologies for answerin...Dear "Christian Soul," <br /><br />My apologies for answering you so late. Regarding your question, "Is it alright to celebrate the Divine Service at a funeral?" - I can think of no reason for which it would technically be wrong. The only difficulty comes in the area of communion fellowship. Since funerals attract a number of family and friends from a wide range of background, it might be somewhat awkward especially if attendance by members of the congregation and other LCMS Lutherans are in the minority. <br /><br />I do agree with you, however, that the Supper is a great place to find true comfort in the face of grief.Donald V. Engebretsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13048205066519140869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-84237332858583484542009-04-16T22:28:00.000-07:002009-04-16T22:28:00.000-07:00Regarding Jewish burial practices in the Old Testa...Regarding Jewish burial practices in the Old Testament period: ossuaries weren't used until about 35 BC and the practice didn't continue much beyond the destruction of the Second Temple about 70 AD. Why that 100 year period? There are different theories, the favored view being that the common ---and erroneous--- view at the time was that the sinful "flesh" had to decompose before the soul could receive its immortality. So, the 'boxed bones' practice was really but a bleep in the timeline of Jewish antiquity...not really an Old Testament practice. <br /><br />Respect for the body is, I believe, the issue. Though I agree with the 'Seelsorger' re: the admissibility of the practice, I can find no scriptural precedent or imperative which authorizes us to proactively assist nature in doing what it must do to fulfill scripture's dust to dust' response to sin.<br /><br />Increasingly, the remains of the cremated are being divided to be scattered in various places and even contained in jewelry to be worn by family members. Such practices show little regard for the body and its ultimate resurrection from the dead. <br /><br />For the committal, the pastor makes the baptismal mark of the cross for the last time upon the deceased, saying, "May God the Father who created this body... God the Son who by His blood redeemed this body...and God the Holy Spirit who sanctified this body to be His temple, keep these remains unto the resurrection of the dead;" There's something about the Father created, Blood bought temple of the Holy Spirit which seems inconsistent with cremation...especially in that our bodies are called 'temples' even as the Body of our Lord was.Pr. Bestulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-5897420252504500692009-04-15T14:58:00.000-07:002009-04-15T14:58:00.000-07:00I am not sure what Scripture teaches about cremati...I am not sure what Scripture teaches about cremation vs. burial, but I would like to be buried next to a church or in a church grave yard. I like the idea of having my body planted like a seed in a church garden, ready to spring forth from the earth when Jesus returns to call His people from their sleep. <br /><br />I have a question. Is it alright to celebrate the Divine Service at a funeral? I like the comfort we have in the knowledge that when we commune with Christ and receive Him in the Lord's Supper the faithfully departed are also there with Him in heaven celebrating that same feast.Christian Soulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17380463924003470217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-20254848972266551562009-04-15T07:25:00.000-07:002009-04-15T07:25:00.000-07:00Hello Bob -
I'm also not a real "fan" of cremation...Hello Bob -<br />I'm also not a real "fan" of cremation and would likewise prefer a traditional burial for myself. When people decide on cremation, I do, by the way, try to encourage a viewing before, especially for immediate family members. I believe this is necessary for "closure." <br /><br />As to your OT insight - Interesting. I hadn't thought of this before. It does make sense, however. <br /><br />I believe that Dr. Schmidt's argument stems in large part from the pagan use/ origin of cremation, and how this would be inappropriate for Christians to use now given its connections. While I understand his argument, I'm not convinced that this connection means anything after all this time. One could make a similar argument for those basilicas that the early church converted from pagan Roman temples after Christianity became legal in the 4th century.Donald V. Engebretsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13048205066519140869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-64280314892554679032009-04-14T10:30:00.000-07:002009-04-14T10:30:00.000-07:00I'm not a fan of cremation at all and would prefer...I'm not a fan of cremation at all and would prefer to be buried in "one piece," so to speak. However, it appears that in the Old Testament days and early church, only the bones were kept in a box and the flesh (or resulting dust) presumably disposed of after decomposition, correct? If that is the case, then even cremation and the ashes being put in an urn retains more of the body than that of the Old Testament times. Would I be correct?Bob Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12340818246074467431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-56822313886508669222009-04-14T01:03:00.000-07:002009-04-14T01:03:00.000-07:00Interesting blog. I like it.
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