tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post6841373137677556701..comments2023-11-02T04:25:49.697-07:00Comments on Northwoods Seelsorger: "I Forgive You All Your Sins" - Can You Really Say That?Donald V. Engebretsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13048205066519140869noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-71543047132612739352021-06-11T13:22:22.576-07:002021-06-11T13:22:22.576-07:00Thank you so much for your thoughtful response Don...Thank you so much for your thoughtful response Donald. I appreciate hearing your perspective. Growing up in a traditional Catholic setting, it is only the priests who can provide absolution from sin (on behalf of Jesus/God); however, Jesus never specifically said "I forgive your sins". And if, as is generally interpreted, that it was Jesus, on behalf of God, that was forgiving, we have to remember that Jesus also taught that "the kingdom of Heaven is within ..." each of us and reminded each of us that we could do everything that he did. So if he was doing the forgiving, then we can offer the forgiving (without going through the priest). I realize this is antithetical to conventional Christian theology, but the history of Christianity is filled with such controversies. Again, thank you so very much for your response.John M Venturahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16810480566206144733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-52383105559476928742021-06-10T07:10:09.828-07:002021-06-10T07:10:09.828-07:00Thank you for your comment, John. It's been a...Thank you for your comment, John. It's been a number of years since I looked at this post, so it's nice to revisit it in light of your question and the other comments before yours that I see I failed to address. It is true that Jesus does say "your sins are forgiven" in places like Luke 5:20. From my perspective it is clear, however, that Jesus, as the divine Son of God, is the one forgiving. Only God can truly forgive sins, and when the pastor announces such forgiveness, he is announcing God's own declaration. In John 8:11 Jesus does tell the woman caught in adultery when the Jews took up stones to stone her: "Then neither do I condemn you. Go now and leave your life of sin." <br /><br />As for the scriptural 'authority' to act on Jesus' behalf, the church has traditionally turned to places like John 20:23 where He tells them: "If you forgive anyone his sins..." The church is given the Office of the Keys (Matt. 18:18) and in no way does the pastor retain sole right of absolution. Each Christian is called to forgive the repentant who sins against them. <br /><br />Paul calls for the "overseer" (episkopos, elder, often seen as equivalent to the local pastor) to "preach the Word," which includes rebuking and encouraging. Calling people to repentance and announcing forgiveness is a way to proclaim this word of rebuking and encouraging in Christ. <br /><br />It was asked why not just say that "Jesus said..."? That's a legitimate question. Lutherans have seen the direct "I forgive you" as a personal application of this forgiveness to the penitent person, recognizing that the living Christ is still present among His people rebuking and encouraging them with Law and Gospel. Donald V. Engebretsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13048205066519140869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-43439906754337330312021-06-10T02:53:34.546-07:002021-06-10T02:53:34.546-07:00Did Jesus ever actually say "I forgive you yo...Did Jesus ever actually say "I forgive you your sins"? I believe he said "your sins are forgiven". We interpret this to mean Jesus is the one forgiving sins, but I don't believe he ever uses the words "I forgive your sins". Does anyone know if Jesus actually uses those exact words at any point in the New Testament? Thanks.John M Venturahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16810480566206144733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-76809418731478409362012-01-02T18:44:51.138-08:002012-01-02T18:44:51.138-08:00Why don't they just say...As it is written in ...Why don't they just say...As it is written in the scriptures, Jesus said and now I forgive your sins, and leave it at that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-78026408297217973832007-12-27T08:42:00.000-08:002007-12-27T08:42:00.000-08:00I undestand your analogy with a pastor's statement...I undestand your analogy with a pastor's statement of "I forgive" to a power of attorney. However, where is the scriptural authority for a pastor to act in Jesus' behalf? In 1 Timothy scripture states that there is only one mediator between God and man and that is Jesus. In using the analogy of a pastor and a power of attorney, a power of attorney gives the holder the authority to act in that person's behalf. Where is the scriptural authority to act on the behalf of Jesus?jaacrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08474737292692809125noreply@blogger.com