tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post7310938060809180348..comments2023-11-02T04:25:49.697-07:00Comments on Northwoods Seelsorger: Five Things You Shoud Not Say at FuneralsDonald V. Engebretsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13048205066519140869noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-49465838810278629232008-10-07T07:00:00.000-07:002008-10-07T07:00:00.000-07:00Thank you for your response Frank.It is true that ...Thank you for your response Frank.<BR/><BR/>It is true that God exists outside of time and space, in the sense that He is not bound by them. However, creation is, especially the visible creation. I see your point but I'm not sure it entirely fits with the scriptural witness. If the dead have already been resurrected, then what will the Final Day of the Resurrection of the Dead be? Scripture talks much about the "Last Day" as a future fulfillment of all things. Death is called a "sleep" in that it is an intermediate state awaiting a time in the future. If the dead are already resurrected, what do we make of this intermediate state? Time and space as we know it will be different after the Last Day. Yet for now we live in this reality. <BR/><BR/>I think I understand your point about victory in death in view of Christ's victory. The point Gibbs makes, however, is recognizing that death, as such, is part of the curse at the Fall. Death, per se, is not victory, but sin's defeat. It is also the last enemy to be fully destroyed, as Paul writes in 1 Corinthians. The defeat of death and victory of life are twin realities in which we live, similar to the "saint-sinner" dichotomy. We are dead and we are alive at the same time. While we are in this life we will always live under the curse, even though we live as those who know the curse is swallowed up in the victory of Christ.Donald V. Engebretsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13048205066519140869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-72301689365115940322008-10-07T05:40:00.000-07:002008-10-07T05:40:00.000-07:00Interesting post pastor.I think the folks at conco...Interesting post pastor.<BR/><BR/>I think the folks at concordia surfaced an interesting point. The point being that the soul does not go to heaven in some disembodied state and that we are not a complete us without both body AND soul. Their conclusions from that though are off I think. they talk alot about time here... <BR/><BR/>Imagine that time and space are also creations of God. God lives outside of time and space. When someone dies, it is a plausible theory that they also leave time and space and, in the twinkling of an eye, are at judgement day, resurrected in their glorified bodies. For us, here still in time, all we can see is a body decomposing... <BR/><BR/>the second point is the one about death and victory. This one is on firm theological ground and there is NO speculation here whatsoever: Jesus swallowed up death with his death. His death between a very good friday sometime between noon and three was THE victory over that enemy and unnatural thing called death.<BR/><BR/>IN CHRIST, our death IS our victory in view of the resurrection. It is not the last word. We died in our baptism literally, and live in the rhythm of dying and rising every day as we pray and confess our sins and turn to our Father in the name of our resurrected and glorified Lord. Our death is not a graduation, it is something we have been living in, along with the resurrection for our entire christian lives. So death for us merely marks a completion of our sanctification. The New Adam´s triumph following that first adam who has already joined in eternal praise in heaven to the second Adam. <BR/><BR/>I wwould be most interested in hearing feedback here.I am a layman, good to get feedback from you pastors to see if I am right....Frank Sonnekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18119302543437442204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-21034275217932189642008-08-20T20:10:00.000-07:002008-08-20T20:10:00.000-07:00Great post! I realized that how I think and talk ...Great post! I realized that how I think and talk about this subject has not been very precise.<BR/><BR/>I wonder if the "victory celebration" terminology reflects a theology of glory creeping in. Even at a time of death, we try to kid ourselves into thinking that it's all okay. Sure, we know the survivors will experience grief because they miss their dear departed one, but we act as if, theologically speaking, all is swell. It's not. Death was not part of the original plan; it's not the way things were supposed to be. Sin and death are a corruption of God's good order. Death may bring victory for the Christian's soul, but the body doesn't win the victory over death until the resurrection. It's victory and defeat at the same time, and to deny the defeat component is to resist the theology of the cross, where Christ is to be found.<BR/><BR/>Defeat and victory at the same time; sadness and hope at the same time. Keep the tension of the paradox.Cindy R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17639370291865261582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-55727507006016944.post-2432371533800563252008-08-12T15:10:00.000-07:002008-08-12T15:10:00.000-07:00I've forwarded your post to my e-mail account to m...I've forwarded your post to my e-mail account to make use of when I graduate from Concordia.Bob Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12340818246074467431noreply@blogger.com